1 1 2 3 4 5 6 PUBLIC MEETING 7 OF THE 8 Special Subcommittees 9 OF THE 10 HOUSE COMMITTEE ON GENERAL LAWS AND TECHNOLOGY 11 STUDYING CHARITABLE GAMING LAWS 12 13 AUGUST 25, 2009 14 6:00 P.M. 15 VIRGINIA WESTERN COMMUNITY COLLEGE 16 ROANOKE, VIRGINIA 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS P. O. Box 12628 24 Roanoke, Virginia 24027 (540) 380-5017 CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540) 380-5017 2 1 2 APPEARANCES OF PANEL: 3 4 DIVISION OF LEGISLATIVE SERVICES Richmond, Virginia 5 BY: AMIGO R. WADE ESQ. AND 6 MARIA J.K. EVERETT, ESQ. 7 ALSO PRESENT: CHRISTINE McCORMICK 8 House of Delegates Committee Coordinator 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 3 1 2 The following cause came onto be heard at 3 Virginia Western Community College, Roanoke, 4 Virginia on this, the 25th day of August, 2009 5 when the following was had: 6 7 MR. AMIGO R. WADE: All right, why don't we 8 go ahead and get started. First, I want to say 9 good late afternoon. My name is Amigo Wade and 10 I'm a staff attorney with the Division of 11 Legislative Services. I'm one of the staff 12 attorneys that provides legal counsel to the 13 special committees that have been set up by the 14 House and Senate General Laws Committees to study 15 gaming laws in Virginia. 16 With me today is Maria Everett. If you 17 ever get mixed up, she is the good looking one, 18 and I'm the better looking one, and she's also a 19 staff attorney. She actually is the staff 20 attorney for House general laws and I'm the staff 21 general attorney for Senate general laws, and 22 Chris McCormick who is here, she is with the 23 clerk's office who is providing us with some 24 assistance today. CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 4 1 This is the public hearing for the -- to 2 talk about gaming laws. A couple of general 3 points that I just want to make. The special 4 subcommittee was set up after some legislation was 5 put in this year brought about some issues that 6 seemed to make them say that it's been about 14 7 years, we need to take just a point to look at how 8 the gaming laws are really working out, and to 9 that -- and to that extent, the Special 10 Subcommittees want to make sure that they had as 11 much opportunity for public input as possible, as 12 they are making their deliberations, because what 13 they want to do at the end of the day is to, if 14 there are any changes to be made, to make them, 15 and if there aren't, then to not make them, so the 16 issues and what we're looking for in terms of 17 doing these public hearings is to find out from 18 the people who play the games, the people who 19 operate the games, and any charities that stand to 20 benefit from the gaming, just their thoughts on 21 the conduct of the games, how they can be made 22 better, whether things need to be changed, and if 23 so, how those changes can be brought about, so we 24 really want things to be as wide open as CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 5 1 possible. 2 As you see, we're transcribing everything 3 that is being said today. That is probably 4 because of the -- I'm not a very good note taker, 5 and Maria is probably a little better, but the 6 objective there is that we want to take everything 7 from today's public hearing, and we had one 8 yesterday in northern Virginia and we've having 9 one next Thursday in Norfolk, and we're going to 10 look at that information and try to develop a 11 matrix and we want to report what we found -- 12 really not what we found, but what has been said 13 across the state at these public hearings to the 14 Special Subcommittees' next meeting which will be 15 September 15th. 16 Now, a couple of basic guides and 17 principles. There is actually three, and we hope 18 that this will help to set the tone for how we 19 want the public hearing to go. First, the members 20 of the Special Subcommittees have no preconceived 21 notions about whether gaming needs to be changed 22 or what specific changes they want to take. It is 23 really wide open, and they really want to hear 24 what the people have to say, so if you would CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 6 1 please keep that in mind, it's not a done deal; we 2 just want to hear everybody, no preconceived 3 notions. 4 Secondly, you have to understand that the 5 overriding public policy in Virginia is that bingo 6 or gaming is one of the exceptions from the 7 standard general policy that gambling in Virginia 8 is illegal. Of course, the other exceptions are 9 the lottery and horse racing, so -- and to that 10 extent, since about 1973, it's been a valid use of 11 the State's police power to regulate charitable 12 gaming, so we want to try to make sure that there 13 is a balance between making sure that the 14 charitable organizations are able to raise money 15 to benefit those charitable purposes, and at the 16 same time, that we protect the public and that the 17 division of charitable gaming is in a position to 18 properly and appropriately regulate. 19 The last guiding principle that we want to 20 get forward is that it really has been about 14 21 years since charitable gaming went from being 22 regulated by each individual locality to being 23 regulated state wide by a state agency, and since 24 that time, there really has not been a CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 7 1 comprehensive review of the State's gaming laws, 2 so it's really appropriate now to go ahead and 3 have that look, which is what we're trying to do 4 with these public hearings, not just the public 5 hearings, but with everything that the Special 6 Subcommittees have been doing throughout this. 7 Now, in terms of the public hearing, of 8 course, you all know by being here, you have a 9 right as a citizen of Virginia to make your voice 10 known, and we want to make sure that you have 11 every opportunity. We have a sign-up sheet, but 12 if you haven't signed up, it's fine to come to the 13 podium. We ask that you please give your name, 14 and if you are representing an organization, give 15 the name of the organization so that we can be -- 16 so that it can be clear on the transcript. 17 We probably wouldn't have a problem with 18 this group, because it is a manageable group, but 19 if we had a bus load of people come in, we would 20 probably say we want to limit things to three to 21 five minutes, but we probably won't have that 22 problem, and you all seem like a pretty direct and 23 succinct group, and I'm from a long line of 24 Baptist preachers, so if you just want to come up CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 8 1 here and say "Amen" to what that guy said, then 2 that is fine, too. 3 Try to make sure that, as you are hearing 4 people's comments that you don't repeat what they 5 say, to kind of help hone things in, and with 6 that, I think that we are -- we are ready to get 7 things started. 8 I'm going to go right down this sign-up 9 sheet and if I -- if I mangle your name, it is a 10 mistake of the heart not the head -- or a mistake 11 of the head, not the heart. 12 MS. MARIA J.K. EVERETT: And one last 13 thing, Amigo has put together a handout that is at 14 the front table that has our website address, 15 because the study does have a website a dress that 16 will tell you when the meeting are; we will give 17 you a summary of the meetings, and anything that 18 we as staff prepare will be on the website, as 19 well as the transcripts eventually will be there, 20 so that will give you the website address and 21 other contact information that you might want, so 22 feel free to take those when you leave. 23 MR. WADE: All right, the first person 24 signing in is Gene Nichols. CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 9 1 MR. NICHOLS: Well, I can say what I have 2 to say from here. I was always told if something 3 is not broken, you don't fix it. Thank you. 4 MR. WADE: Can you be a little bit more 5 direct? 6 MR. NICHOLS: Well, if it ain't broke, you 7 don't fix it. 8 MR. WADE: All right, the next person 9 signing in is Andy Dooley. 10 MR. DOOLEY: Yes; do I need to come down in 11 front of the mike or can you hear me well enough 12 from here? 13 MS. EVERETT: Can everybody hear? We just 14 want everybody to be able to hear. 15 MR. DOOLEY: All right, my name is Andy 16 Dooley and I'm currently the administrator of the 17 Roanoke Moose Family Center 284, out on Catawba 18 Valley Road. First, let me thank you for the time 19 taken here to come and let us speak, because I 20 think that it's very important that you hear from 21 the managers and hopefully the citizens in this 22 community, in this room tonight that are going to 23 speak, but my first concern is about what we heard 24 last year, and I think that it was deferred, CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 10 1 raising the prizes on a regular game from $100 to 2 $250. 3 I want to speak to you about a small game, 4 of less than 100 people. That would really, 5 really hurt us, and I'm coming from a lodge in 6 Bedford that I served for 20 years, and being new 7 to Roanoke, that is just getting ready to start up 8 and I will talk about the licensing process in a 9 minute, but if you did that to a game that in 10 Bedford that had 80 to 90 people, that eliminates 11 a lot of money that could be donated to the 12 community. We just can't afford to raise the 13 prizes for regular game to $100 to $250; it would 14 eliminate the number of players, and to me, I see 15 that as an opportunity for the landlords that have 16 these big buildings that have sports organizations 17 that come in and they are run all day long, and 18 not knowing those rules but do they -- are they 19 required to donate like we do to charity, whether 20 it be the Elks or whether it be the Eagles or 21 whether it be the Moose Lodge, because those 22 landlords have to devote, do they have to give a 23 percentage of their profits, because my 24 understanding of bingo is that it was started to CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 11 1 help organizations such as fraternal 2 organizations, and I am not only speaking of them 3 but of other organizations that help them where 4 they can help their communities to be a better 5 place to live, and shame on us if we are letting a 6 landlord make a profit off of this. I think that 7 is wrong. 8 Secondly, I'm concerned about the process 9 to apply for a license. I want to share with you 10 what happened this week. The Roanoke Lodge had 11 had a license that had been in existence for some 12 time but they stopped playing for various reasons 13 and I want to reapply, so I call and I get a 14 recording saying, if you are talking about 15 applying, we are studying applications in May. 16 Ladies and Gentlemen, we are almost in 17 September, and if it takes that long to get in the 18 process, my understanding is that this Department 19 of Charitable Gaming is a self-supported 20 organization, and shame on government if they cut 21 your help when we're trying to help the 22 Commonwealth. We're not trying to hurt you; we're 23 trying to give money to you, and if it takes that 24 long to get an application to them, low and CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 12 1 behold, I found out that I have to go through the 2 Department of Consumer Affairs to prove that I am 3 an exempt organization. 4 That is another fee, and so I'm concerned 5 about that, and I realize budget cuts and state 6 revenue and what we need to do, but I hope the 7 Government will be a part of this solution, not a 8 problem. I really do. 9 I hate to say that I've served in 10 government and sometimes we cause a lot of road 11 blocks ourselves with rules and regulations, but 12 lastly, I do want to say thank you for what you've 13 allowed the organizations to do, and I think that 14 this General Laws Committee will look at things. 15 Our neighbors to the north, to the south, and to 16 the east of us, my friends, are allowed all kinds 17 of gambling; our society has turned to that. Did 18 we cause it? I don't know, but I'm saying West 19 Virginia can have slot machines, what is wrong 20 with them in Virginia? 21 Go and look and see whose cars are parked 22 in the parking lot. More of them are Virginia now 23 than West Virginia, and lastly, I don't know that 24 this has anything to do with the laws, but I do CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 13 1 want to express my thanks to the General Assembly 2 when they did not exempt -- I mean, did not 3 enforce the smoking law on the private clubs, 4 because a lot of people play bingo smoking, and we 5 have restaurants in our clubs, and if we're 6 classified as a restaurant and that smoking law 7 goes into effect, that is really, really going to 8 hurt us. Thank you for listening to me. 9 MS. EVERETT: Thank you. 10 MR. WADE: All right, the next speaker that 11 we have is Mr. Larry Logan. 12 MR. LOGAN: Thank you for the opportunity 13 to speak with you today. I'm Larry Logan and I 14 represent the Virginia Fire Service. We represent 15 over 20,000 fire fighters in Virginia, mostly 16 volunteers, some career, and it would be nice to 17 think that the local government supports all of 18 our fire departments and furnishes everything, but 19 I'm here to tell you, it's not even close. 20 Just a small fraction of the fire trucks 21 bought, equipment bought is paid for by local 22 governments and taxes. Most of it is done by the 23 volunteers, and they have to raise the money. 24 Our association has a large commentary CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 14 1 here, in Hampton, we just had that last week, this 2 was brought up and we passed a resolution to 3 oppose any type of major change to any of the 4 gaming laws. They are very difficult right now, 5 just the paperwork. You've already heard some of 6 that, and we have the same problems. We just -- 7 we need to be able to support our communities with 8 fire equipment and be able to make the responses 9 necessary to save people's lives, and to do that, 10 we have to have things such as bingo and be able 11 to operate efficiently and not have so many 12 regulations that it makes it very difficult for 13 our people to even raise the money to do the job 14 that they in their hearts feel like doing. Thank 15 you very much. 16 MS. EVERETT: Thank you. 17 MR. WADE: We next have Tommy Austin. 18 MR. AUSTIN: Yes, thank you. This 19 gentleman here has referred to a small group of 20 people as 90 to 100. That is a large group to me. 21 I'm from Russell County, just about as far down 22 the state as you can go without running into 23 Tennessee, but our department has bingo. It's 24 small, but the paperwork we do now is just CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 15 1 overwhelming. I mean, it's all we can do to keep 2 up with what is going on now. 3 I don't know; there have been times that I 4 got calls from Richmond, we filled this out wrong 5 and done this wrong, and you have to understand, 6 we've got volunteer people doing this, and, you 7 know, we can't afford to have lawyers and, you 8 know, smart people doing it. We have farmers, 9 coal miners, you know, that try to fill out our 10 paperwork, and I'm opposed to any expansion to 11 this. If anything, I would like to see a 12 reduction in some of the laws that would help us, 13 you know, our -- I guess the most people that we 14 have is 50 to 60 people who do bingo, and we just 15 can't afford all of this upgrading and all of this 16 stuff. I thank you. 17 MR. WADE: Thank you. 18 MS. EVERETT: Thank you. 19 MR. WADE: Mr. David Bailey? 20 MR. BAILEY: Yes, David Bailey with the 21 Virginia State fire fighters. These two, we thank 22 you all for being here and giving us a chance to 23 speak. The only thing that I could add, I think, 24 to what these two gentlemen have said is that to CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 16 1 underscore that the concern is that should the 2 state law be changed in the future that would 3 favor large bingo operations, it would in effect 4 put many of the small ones out of business, and 5 although, as you were saying, it's been 14 years 6 since the regulation of the Virginia Department of 7 Charitable Gaming, there have been some efforts 8 during these 14 years to make some changes that 9 would again favor the larger ones, and so we 10 would -- we would respectfully request that the 11 subcommittee doing the study to hold the line 12 where it is now, not make additional changes that 13 would put small operations, whether they be fire 14 departments or rescue squads or other charitable 15 organizations out of business. Thank you. 16 MS. EVERETT: David, when you say that, are 17 you talking about increasing prize amounts, or can 18 you be a little bit more specific? 19 MR. BAILEY: Increasing prize amounts. I 20 did see, and I apologize, I don't remember the 21 gentleman's name, a fantastic presentation at 22 Pop's World, and I think, as we discussed that, to 23 go to all kinds of electronic equipment that is 24 leased, with bigger prizes, to go with all due CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 17 1 respect to what some called electronic slot 2 machines, we think that that -- that may be 3 desired by -- and probably IS by larger 4 operations, but we don't find any small ones at 5 all that say that they want to make those 6 changes. 7 MS. EVERETT: Great, thank you. 8 MR. WADE: Mr. Robert Shelor. 9 MR. SHELOR: "Shelor." 10 MR. WADE: Shelor, okay. 11 MR. SHELOR: That is okay. Thank you for 12 being here. My name is Robert Shelor, and I'm a 13 member of the Virginia Elks Association and a 14 member of the Bedford Virginia Elks Lodge, and I 15 also have with me tonight members from Lynchburg, 16 Danville, and Galax here in the southwest portion 17 of the state. 18 SPEAKER: And Martinsville. 19 MR. SHELOR: Oh, I didn't see him in the 20 back. Martinsville is also represented here 21 tonight. 22 There are 31 lodges in the State of 23 Virginia and a majority of them have bingo. The 24 proposed changes to the Charitable Gaming CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 18 1 Commission would negatively affect our ability to 2 participate in beginning owe. I realize that 3 these changes are voluntary; however, increasing 4 the number of weeks, number of times a week to 5 four that bingo games may be held would hinder us 6 from competing due to getting volunteers to work 7 bingo. 8 All of our workers are volunteers. 9 Increasing the pay-outs to a maximum of $250 10 prohibits us from competing and would be a 11 disaster for the small games. Most of us struggle 12 with having 60 to 90 people in attendance, and we 13 would have to double the attendance or the cost to 14 play, and that is not possible for us to do. 15 A majority of the 500 plus licensed bingo 16 games are small and they provide most of the money 17 to charities in their communities across the state 18 that is derived from bingo. If these changes take 19 place, it will drive the smaller bingo games out 20 of business and our charity programs in 21 communities will be the ones to suffer the most, 22 and let me give you an example. 23 In the Galax area, every Christmas, 600 24 children plus are brought into the Elks Lodge and CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 19 1 given toys, fruits, that type of thing that a lot 2 of kids don't get, and that is paid for out of the 3 bingo that these folks work. That would go by the 4 wayside if we were not able to compete with the 5 bigger games. 6 I want to commend the Charitable Gaming 7 Commission; I think that they've done a good job. 8 I agree with the gentleman that said if it's not 9 broke, don't fix it. It's my opinion and those of 10 the other Elks that the only ones that will 11 benefit from any of these changes would be the 12 commercial type games, and I urge you not to adopt 13 these changes. 14 I want to thank the subcommittee tonight 15 for giving us the time to be here and to present 16 to you our views on bingo. Thank you very much. 17 MS. EVERETT: Thank you. 18 MR. WADE: When you said smaller games, 19 what is the average crowd players that you are 20 talking about for your organization? 21 MR. SHELOR: Probably between 60 and 90, 22 from what I can gather throughout the southwest 23 district. We have seven lodges in the southwest 24 district and five of them have bingo, and they CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 20 1 usually run anywhere between 60 and 90. 2 SPEAKER: The average would be 70, around 3 70. 4 MR. SHELOR: Average about 70. 5 MR. WADE: And about how many volunteers do 6 you have to work on a given night? 7 SPEAKER: We are lucky if we have ten. 8 SPEAKER: Ten. 9 SPEAKER: And I have had as low as five. 10 MR. SHELOR: Which makes it very 11 difficult. 12 MS. EVERETT: Thank you very much. 13 MR. SHELOR: Thank you. 14 MR. WADE: Thank you. Chuck Lessin? 15 MR. LESSIN: My name is Chuck Lessin and I 16 drove up from Richmond. I represent the Virginia 17 Charitable Bingo Association in addition to which 18 I represent a charity that has conducted bingo for 19 25 years, so we come at this from a couple of 20 different ways, if you will, and in addition to 21 which our charity owns a building where we play 22 our bingo games and rent it out to other charities 23 in Richmond, and our group is traveling the state 24 trying to familiarize all of the charities with CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 21 1 our new group, the Virginia Charitable Bingo 2 Association, and when I say "our new group," it 3 really is a group that we want to belong to all of 4 us that are gaming in Virginia, and we put it 5 together with a very simple thought in mind and 6 that is that there is power in numbers, and as I 7 travel around and have spoke to a lot of groups 8 that have already joined, most of which are the 9 small games, by the way. The overwhelming 10 majority of our membership so far is small games 11 all around the state, and there is a lot of 12 comments; I mean, some of them are about paperwork 13 and some of them are about prizes, so our position 14 was instead of four, five, six charities one at a 15 time calling the Division saying, can you change 16 this or that, wouldn't it be nice to have one 17 group, one big voice where we try to get consensus 18 and present our positions to the general assembly, 19 if it means the change of laws or to division of 20 charitable gaming, if we have questions about 21 rules or regulations or paperwork, that is our 22 effort to really bring consensus where we can. 23 We know that we won't achieve consensus on 24 all issues, but where we can, we would like to CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 22 1 pull us together as a large group of charities 2 where we can speak with one large voice, but the 3 real core of what we're trying to do is simple, 4 and that is, all of us that have been working 5 bingo for all of these years, and as I said, I've 6 been doing it twice a week for 25 years. We all 7 know that it is a lot of work; it is a lot of 8 work. In our case, it is a smoke filled rooms, 9 and I hate to say it, but we're almost all 10 addicted to it now, but our charities depend on 11 it. That is how we fund the charitable efforts in 12 our communities, and how do you stop it when you 13 know that all of these different things are 14 counting on you and what you are doing; it's hard 15 to, so what we really wanted, when we put this 16 group together a few months ago, we want more 17 money for our charities. It is a tremendous 18 amount of effort, and we would like to see the 19 bottom line grow instead of shrink, and it really 20 is shrinking now for a lot of reasons. 21 We all are aware, it doesn't matter what 22 part of the state we're in, the economy is 23 terrible, and our general contributions as a group 24 are down probably 50 percent this year, and there CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 23 1 is a lot of new competition, so we gathered 2 together and we said, if we can pull together as 3 many charities as possible, we're talking about 4 $100 a year membership dues for this group, we've 5 hired a person in Richmond who is a lobbyist has 6 the ability to give us access to the individual 7 legislatures, to have private meetings with them 8 one or one, to communicate directly with the 9 Division of Charitable Gaming and say, this is our 10 group and these are our concerns. 11 We agree that there are many, many -- most 12 aspects of charitable gaming that are working 13 beautifully, and we also agree, if it's not broke, 14 then what are we going to try to fix, but on the 15 other hand, if we are going to try to make up for 16 the loss of revenue that most of us are feeling, 17 we think that we need to be, as a group, 18 proactive. We cannot sit back and just let things 19 happen to us and see the bottom line shrivel. 20 We have to really think, how do we put our 21 heads together, how do we come up with new ideas 22 that will benefit all of us. We are 23 hypersensitive to the fact that there is an idea 24 out there that, if we do something for the big CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 24 1 games, it's going to kill the small games, and as 2 I said, most of our members are so far are small 3 games, just like the ones in this room, but we 4 want to represent everybody, small games, medium 5 size games, and large games, and I would like to 6 make the following observation, if I can. 7 Last night we had the same meeting in 8 northern Virginia, and we talked about this for a 9 couple of minutes, and I would like to do the same 10 thing tonight if I will give me permission to do 11 so. 12 About a week ago, a number of charities 13 called me and they said, we have a great idea and 14 we would like for you to present it as you go 15 around to talk to folks in different parts of 16 state. If you take your paperwork and you 17 evaluate your numbers, I am guessing that you will 18 all be in agreement that the weakest game in our 19 program for all of us is the Winner Take All game, 20 and we make no money on it, and I guess in your 21 smaller games, you don't get in the $1,000 Winner 22 Take All and I will tell you something, even in 23 Richmond, where the games are bigger, a lot of 24 games are not paying $1,000; they are giving $700 CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 25 1 or $800 prizes, but the issue is, whether it's a 2 $200 or $900 Winner Take All games, it is zero 3 profit to the charity. Not only is it zero 4 profit, you took whatever that amount of money is, 5 you took it off the sales floor, and it could have 6 been spent on instants where we have a 25 or 30 7 markup. It could have been extra jackpot sheets 8 where it's pure profit, it's gone, poof, all of 9 that money off the floor, and now, two times a 10 night, because a lot of charities are doing two 11 Winner Take Alls, these groups came to me and said 12 that is the weakest game, what is the most 13 profitable game in the program, and by far, in 14 everybody's program, this is not just Richmond, by 15 the way; it's games that we're hearing all over, 16 it's the Lucky 7 games. 17 Now, it is a relatively speaking new game, 18 in the past two or three years, something like 19 that, and the Lucky 7 game, the average charity 20 from -- the average take from these charities that 21 I was speaking to was $303 a session profit from 22 the Lucky 7 game. We can talk about the 23 particulars of the Lucky 7 if everybody has any 24 questions, I'm sure that we can share information CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 26 1 later, but I know that there are a couple of 2 groups not playing Lucky 7, but for those of you 3 who are, it is clearly the most profitable game in 4 the program, so the bottom line idea was this: 5 Why don't we do away with the winner take all 6 state wide; why don't we ask the Virginia General 7 Assembly to change the law and say that -- the 8 intent was that it would be a big $1,000 game and 9 it would draw in lots of people and it would be 10 great for the charities, and it probably was the 11 intent and it was a good intent, but it's not 12 working, so if that is not working, and we're not 13 making any money on that but we're all making good 14 money on the Lucky 7, why don't we ban the Winner 15 Take All, not just one but both of them. Let's 16 just stop playing it. It won't hurt any games, 17 small, medium, or large, if nobody can play it. 18 It's just not played, period, and instead of one 19 Lucky 7, what if we play three Lucky 7's, and the 20 Lucky 7 can start out at up to $500, and again, 21 for those of you who don't know, it's a game that 22 starts out up to $500 and the player picks his 23 seven numbers, and if you can win that game in 16 24 numbers or less, you win $500. CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 27 1 Well, it's almost mathematically impossible 2 to win it; it's rare, but it happens, and it takes 3 about 28 or 30 numbers to win that game, so if you 4 are selling it, if you have a jackpot starting at 5 $500 and the first night, you can only win if you 6 pick your seven numbers and get the bingo on 16 or 7 less, well, if you don't get it, then you get a 8 $100 prize, and you add money to the jackpot, and 9 the next night you are playing for 17 numbers or 10 less and then there is a $600 prize and so on and 11 so forth, so what if we raise that limit to 12 $1,000. 13 That is not an increase in prize. You are 14 going to have 15 nights approximately where you 15 get to sell that game before there is a winner, 16 and if you think that, again, these groups that I 17 spoke to said that they were making over $300 a 18 night on the one game they are allowed to play, 19 and if you can do that three times a night and not 20 lose any of that money, you basically would be 21 shifting the money; you are taking the money for 22 the Lucky 7 game and sort of recycle it, if you 23 will, and it will be just as exciting to the 24 players, especially if there is three of them on a CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 28 1 night, and this fellow is telling me, maybe you 2 stagger it. 3 If the State approved it, let's say it 4 became effective on July 1, the minute it became 5 effective, we start one and then two weeks later 6 we start another one and two weeks later we start 7 another, and you have these games staggered in the 8 program and you have this great new game where the 9 charities are making more money on that game than 10 anything else in the program. 11 Now, we can fine tune this later or talk 12 about this later, but what I want to tell you is, 13 as a group, this really is the intention of the 14 Virginia Charitable Bingo Association. I think 15 that these are the kinds of things that we need to 16 be doing. I'm in agreement, our charities do not 17 want casinos; we do not want slot machines, and we 18 don't want to have to compete with it. We just 19 want to improve our bingo game and bring it up, if 20 you will, to the times and let the charities make 21 more money, and there's probably some folks here 22 that disagree with this Lucky 7 idea, and I 23 appreciate that and I respect that, but what about 24 the ideas that we can continue to talk about where CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 29 1 we can come to consensus or agreement and ask the 2 General Assembly to work with us to help us 3 implement these things so we can make more money 4 and give away more money, so instead of 600 kids 5 at Christmas time, make it will be 800, whatever 6 our program is, we want to grow our program and 7 make it better for all of the effort that we're 8 putting into it, so I would urge everybody here, 9 our website is "dcbingo.org," and I have a whole 10 stack of applications if you are interested in 11 this. 12 I'm traveling the state along with these 13 hearings, but I'm available with a week's notice 14 to meet anybody at any time. We have other 15 volunteers that are doing this with me, and one of 16 us would be happy to come to your game. 17 I want to sort of summarize two things. We 18 don't want to favor any game over another. We're 19 not trying to improve the bottom line for the big 20 games at the expense of the little games; that is 21 not what we're about. We want to improve the 22 bottom line for everybody, and the only way to do 23 that is join together and communicate and find out 24 where we can reach a consensus and the most CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 30 1 important point is we just want to make more 2 money. 3 You do this 52 times a year, once a week, 4 it is an enormous amount of effort, so we want to 5 see all of the charities, including my own, make 6 more money, so I'm available if anybody would like 7 to chat more about it, and we invite you to visit 8 our website and we appreciate the time. 9 MS. EVERETT: Thanks, Chuck. 10 MR. WADE: One of the things that we did 11 last night, because we've gotten to the end of the 12 sign-up sheet, one of the things that we did at 13 the public hearing last night is we just wanted to 14 give people an opportunity, if they have other 15 concerns, I want to acknowledge the presence 16 tonight of individuals from the Charitable Gaming 17 Division. 18 Betty is here, Betty Bowman, and I think 19 that says a lot. They were at the public hearing 20 last night, and they probably will be there next 21 week when we go to Tidewater, and they are 22 interested, and they want to be here for you. 23 If -- is there anyone else that wants to speak or 24 to make a comment? Yes? CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 31 1 MR. NORRIS: My name is Andy Morris, and 2 I'm with the Elks Organization. I feel like 3 everybody is being very generous who is running a 4 small game when they say it will hurt us. It will 5 kill us. I cannot get 60 some people in my 6 lodge. I have the space; I do not have the people 7 to come. I run between 55 and 65 people in my 8 game every week. I cannot get volunteers. I 9 usually have five to twelve volunteers, and the 10 gentleman here who said about the game that would 11 create 55 or something like that, I have trouble 12 making my first $500 jackpot. I usually lose on 13 it every week. The winner takes all. The paper 14 does not cost that much. It's no big thing. 15 If you want to run up your progressive, run 16 your progressive, but open it up where we can run 17 more than one at a time if we wish to, like he 18 spoke on. I'm sitting back here and I'm listening 19 to everybody and I'm agreeing with what you all 20 said, and that is the way that I think. It will 21 kill us, not hurt. Hurt is the wrong word. We 22 cannot afford to pay $250 out when I don't get but 23 $1,200 at the door and $150 of that was my 24 starting money. It's not feasible, no way in this CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 32 1 world. Thank you. 2 MR. WADE: Thank you. Any other public 3 comment? 4 MS. EVERETT: Don't be shy, come on, that 5 is why we're here. 6 SPEAKER: Well, I wish that I had the 7 regulations in front of me, and I've not been 8 involved in the game for the last eight months, 9 but I heard something today, if we cancel a game, 10 we have to call the department the next day? 11 MS. EVERETT: We're going to turn this into 12 a town hall meeting where we will throw it open to 13 issues and it seems to me it's the time for that, 14 but I want to give everybody who came specifically 15 to get their concerns on the table, that -- and 16 then we'll come back, if that is okay with you, to 17 this gentleman here. No, please, go ahead. 18 MR. BANKS: My concern is about the 19 application process also, as this gentleman spoke 20 about earlier. My name is Victor Banks, and I'm 21 the director of the Melrose Athletic Club, and 22 we're a youth and amateur boxing program, and our 23 application was received June the 4th of 2008, and 24 it wasn't processed until February of this year CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 33 1 with a denial based on a couple of concerns which 2 I thought that I had worked out with Mike Menefee 3 before he left the department, and right now, I've 4 been, you know, talking to Betty Bowman, you know, 5 about it, and, you know, it's still pending, and 6 that is my concern with the time span. You know, 7 it's been almost 14 months. 8 MS. EVERETT: Thank you. Anybody else that 9 came here with a comment on anything about 10 charitable gaming? Not the time to be bashful. 11 All right, well, with everybody's 12 permission, following kind of what we did in 13 Anandale last night, Betty and her staff are here, 14 and Betty, do you want to have an opportunity to 15 say anything first, or how do you want to do it? 16 Because the dialogue was really good, because 17 somehow attaching a name to a face, and like Amigo 18 said, having the fact that they are here, shows 19 that they have an interest in getting road blocks 20 settled. 21 I have heard nothing but willingness to 22 work with people, because it sort of is a new 23 regime, even though we have the knowledge that 24 it's tight budget times and the Division's budget CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 34 1 as well as all state agencies are facing another 2 round of budget cuts, but I think that if we just 3 have the -- a discussion about, again, bring up 4 your point, and if Betty would just kind of have a 5 town hall meeting and talk about sharing ideas, 6 what are other concerns, maybe we can benefit from 7 other people's experience, but Betty, I want to 8 certainly give you the opportunity today for 9 everybody to see who you are, put a name and face 10 together, and -- I know. 11 MS. BOWMAN: That is good. 12 MS. EVERETT: That is a good thing and a 13 bad thing, but she is approachable, so hit it, 14 Betty. 15 MS. BOWMAN: Even more appropriate; hit it, 16 Betty. I'm Betty Bowman, division director, and I 17 also want to recognize that we have several of the 18 charitable gaming board members here Reggie 19 Crowder and (inaudible) and so they also came 20 tonight to hear these comments. 21 As I said last night, I became the heir to 22 all of this in November of 2008. For many of you, 23 you talked about the Charitable Gaming 24 Commission. It was a department, now we're a CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 35 1 division. You have to keep up now, because we 2 keep moving around. The website has not changed, 3 so all of that is still the same. 4 All I can tell you is this: Please 5 understand that sometimes I feel like I end up 6 like the kid in school who has to take the rap. 7 We're charged, and the General Assembly said, for 8 all of the reasons that, you know, they talked 9 about, we've had charitable gaming in Virginia to 10 raise funding for charities. It is our job, and 11 I'm sorry, Carolyn Buko, if I'm getting picked on, 12 I will pick on them, too, but Carolyn Buko is the 13 Audit & Revenue Manager, and Mr. Comcard (sic) is 14 the Inspector and Enforcement Manager. They 15 tagged along, too. 16 We have to make ensure that all of the 17 charitable gaming, bingo and raffles in Virginia, 18 are done by the regulations, and I know the next 19 thing I'm going to say, you will say right, we're 20 the Government, we're here to help you. 21 SPEAKER: Yes. 22 MS. BOWMAN: See, we are here to help you; 23 it is not our goal to get you, okay, but please 24 understand the responsibility that we have, and we CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 36 1 must do because we all sign contracts; our job 2 says we must do it. I have to make sure that you 3 account for this money. It is cash, laying out in 4 the middle of the table, let's face it, and it's 5 gambling. I know that we don't do that in 6 Virginia, but it is; you do know that, so it is 7 our responsibility that you are conducting your 8 game the way that the rules and the regulations 9 say so. 10 Some of them were proposed when I was 11 there, some of them weren't, but it doesn't make 12 any difference. A lot of them the legislation put 13 in, but that is what we have to do. The forms, I 14 know, they make you angry. They don't make us 15 necessarily happy, either. We're not saying that 16 we will not work with you about the forms, but 17 let's go back and think about, I mean, I'm old, we 18 are all getting old, but let's think about when 19 you were in high school. We waited for the ninth 20 hour to do what? The exam, the study, the project 21 or the paper or whatever. 22 If games do not keep up, if organizations 23 do not keep up with these games and the paperwork, 24 you know what is going to happen. You won't have CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 37 1 a clue what is going on. If you don't have a clue 2 what is going on, you are not making money or 3 running it as what? A business. That is really 4 what this is. It is charity, and I hear you. 5 Lord knows I know that you have a problem. If you 6 think that you have a problem with volunteers, I 7 have a problem with their budget and I don't get 8 any control over that, and by the way, I have an 9 appropriation, this money does not come to us. I 10 know it makes you angry, the audit and 11 administration fee. Do not look at me about that; 12 I didn't have anything to do with it, or the 13 board. That was the General Assembly, okay? 14 We do not get a dime of that, not a dime of 15 it, so we're cut, but we have to do what we have 16 to do. That is what we're here to do, but please 17 understand that when we have to make you apply by 18 the rules and regulations, there was some very, 19 very bad things that went on, and that is why 20 charitable gaming came into light. There are 21 people out here in every location, and I don't 22 know if you know the history of some of it, but 23 every location was supposed to be monitoring. 24 Some did, some didn't, most of them didn't, and CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 38 1 that is the other sad story that probably many of 2 you read was in Richmond, Kenny Brown, he ended up 3 helping an organization that was blind and he had 4 some other folks with other disabilities, and oh, 5 he helped them all right, he helped them pay their 6 bills and he took the money, and if you ever saw 7 that story, "America's Most Wanted," he was on 8 there, too. 9 They don't know where he is, okay, and 10 those are the kinds of things that we have to make 11 sure does not go on. There's just some greedy 12 people in this world and they are going to take 13 advantage of the situation, and you all are out 14 here, the fire departments, we get told every year 15 how much money you all need because of what? 16 Because if the state is shrinking, so are the 17 local governments, and we know that you need that 18 money for fire equipment, uniforms, trucks, you 19 name it, and the Elks and the Moose and everybody 20 else, you give money to the community because the 21 community ain't got it any more to give, but 22 again, please don't be mad at us. We're hear to 23 help you, but we have to make sure that things are 24 regulated and done right. CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 39 1 A long time ago, it wasn't, and I don't 2 think that you want to go back to that again, and 3 the other thing I will leave you with is if we can 4 all work together on this and get it done right, 5 and if you say I said this, I will deny it, but it 6 could be worse. Be careful what you ask for, 7 because you don't want a whole lot of more 8 regulations, and we can all work on this and get 9 it done and try to get everybody's goal 10 accomplished, which is what? Money for your 11 charity. We're here, you can come beat me up; I 12 can take it. They will help me get home tonight, 13 we'll get over it, so we're here, please come. 14 MS. EVERETT: Thank you, Betty. I mean, 15 can I speak, sir? 16 MR. WADE: Yes. 17 MS. EVERETT: We tag team who is in charge, 18 so I don't want to get in trouble here. 19 MR. WADE: I think that everybody knows who 20 is in charge. 21 MS. EVERETT: But it's sort of picking up 22 on -- well, exactly, and we know that, too, and we 23 use it. On sort of, you know, last night with 24 Chuck's comments about creating the Virginia CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 40 1 Charitable Bingo Association, having worked in the 2 General Assembly for 19 sessions, and Amigo is 3 somewhere about eleven or twelve. 4 MR. WADE: Twelve. 5 MS. EVERETT: Twelve sessions, the only 6 people -- and Chuck's point is well taken and he's 7 going to give me $20 for boosting his join up now, 8 but, you know, having watched the legislative 9 process, the only people that represent the bingo 10 players, the charities, there is no organized 11 effort, and what you have is lawyers that 12 represent the landlords, and so that is why you 13 see sort of the legislation that has gotten 14 everybody fired up about it, increasing the number 15 of days, and, well, if you own your own building, 16 you can play two days and you can rent it out for 17 two more. 18 Well, the legislation that did not pass 19 would have said if you owned your own building, 20 you can use all four days for yourself, and that 21 is where the increase in prize money was; it came 22 from the landlords, because they have a voice now, 23 and Delegate Dave Albo, who is on the General Laws 24 Committee and on this Special Subcommittee had CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 41 1 mentioned that, you know, if -- the reason why we 2 did these public hearings is the idea of they as 3 legislators for the most part don't participate in 4 bingo, they don't belong to -- necessarily to a 5 charity, and so they don't really want to write 6 the law because they don't know what law should be 7 written, to tell you the truth. It's people 8 coming to them one on one or the landlords as a 9 group coming to them, and so what Dave had said, 10 Delegate Albo, was if you just tell us what you 11 compromise on, we'll do what there is consensus 12 on, that is kind of what the legislators want to 13 do, because the art of legislation is about 14 compromise, so if there is an opinion, then we're 15 certainly getting a sense of what the opinion is. 16 "No" on the prize increase, we get it, and 17 so that means something to legislators is that 18 there is consensus on these issues, but having a 19 voice down there and, you know, at the General 20 Assembly, it is insider baseball. There is just 21 no two ways about it, and so having somebody that 22 knows how the process works, and the other point 23 is, it's kind of -- I feel a little bit like a 24 civics lesson, so if you bear with me, that CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 42 1 because there is regulation, the General Assembly 2 sets the framework, and with any regulatory body, 3 whether it's barbers, cosmetologists, landscape 4 architects, engineers, boxers, everybody is 5 regulated at some level of the State, and the way 6 the State approaches it is they create boards that 7 have some experience in whatever that regulation 8 is, and they actually give them the authority to 9 regulate and they take it from there, so how do 10 you participate in the regulatory process? 11 The General Assembly process is out there, 12 but that is statutory, but how does a plain 13 citizen or a group of citizens participate in the 14 regulatory process. There is opportunity in 15 Virginia; it's called the Administrative Process 16 Act, and so there is a time when a regulation is 17 proposed, it must be published in the Virginia 18 register, and there is all -- and the websites of 19 state agencies, because that is where all of the 20 regulatory bodies are, have websites that you can 21 track what they do. 22 People can petition for regulatory change, 23 but as Betty has indicated, you don't even have to 24 go as far as participating in the regulatory CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 43 1 process, you can just call her office now and sit 2 down and have a discussion about it, because 3 regulatory process, like everything in government, 4 takes some time. 5 There's the period of time the proposed 6 regulations are out there for people to look at, 7 plus a 30 day comment period, so nothing happens, 8 you know, (snaps fingers), as everybody knows, 9 nothing happens in government like that, and my 10 way of thinking, that is not a bad thing, so there 11 is ways to participate in this process; it's just 12 none of us knew how to do it. We don't -- we're 13 out here busy trying to run the games, make money 14 for our charities, but don't really understand how 15 the mechanisms work to participate more fully, and 16 not that I'm stumping for Chuck Lessin's group, 17 but I'm just saying that there is benefit to 18 the -- to people in this industry, if you will, 19 for being organized, because then all of a sudden, 20 you do have a voice, and that is what legislators 21 are looking for, is some -- to say, this is 22 consensus, this is what we want done, and Amigo 23 and I's job is to write the law that reflects 24 that, so I just wanted to sort of put that out CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 44 1 there for us and how this works. I'm done. 2 MR. WADE: I think Mr. Dooley had asked a 3 question earlier. 4 MS. EVERETT: Right, you were saying 5 about -- 6 MR. DOOLEY: And I don't have the 7 regulations in front of me, so correct me if I'm 8 wrong, but I understand now, due to weather or 9 electrical breakdown in your building or whatever, 10 and you don't conduct a session, you have to 11 either notify the department, and I don't know 12 whether it's electronically or by fax or simply 13 making a phone call that you didn't play the game 14 that night, but we do reports monthly and you have 15 audits that come there, so why create another 16 step? 17 I understand about the money on the table. 18 That is kind of like letting the fox watch the hen 19 house; I understand all of that, but I want you to 20 understand, don't govern us to death. Regulations 21 come out 30 days prior and who has got time to set 22 on the computer to watch what you guys are doing 23 on the website? Maybe you should send an alert 24 out to the operators, here is what has happened. CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 45 1 I know Brother Crowder right here, I've 2 been knowing him for years, and I know that he is 3 on the Commission, but I have no idea when you all 4 are going to have a meeting and what is on the 5 agenda. Is it published? I'm sure that it is, 6 but I don't know where it is. If we need to be in 7 process, maybe this gentleman is on the right 8 track. I don't agree with him; in fact, me and 9 him could argue all night and you won't get 10 anything done. I want him to know, I do not agree 11 with that. 12 MS. EVERETT: Okay, fine-- I'm sorry. 13 MR. DOOLEY: And I would like to say to 14 you, let us give you ten percent of the gross and 15 us take the rest of the money. Make it simple. 16 Don't tell me I have to use 85 percent of it to 17 pay the electric bill and what I can use for a 18 business expense. If I give you ten percent of $1 19 million, you got it, we give it to charity, and 20 you we give you the audit fee, make it simple. 21 Don't make it hard; make it simple for us. Thank 22 you. 23 MS. EVERETT: Thank you. Betty, any 24 comment? CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 46 1 MS. BOWMAN: Well, I think that -- 2 MS. EVERETT: There is a lot of things to 3 comment on, but, you know... 4 MS. BOWMAN: The reason that we ask you to 5 tell us that you are not gaming, and there is a 6 website and I know that you don't want to hear 7 this, but you can call and there's -- on our 8 website, there is an address. 9 MR. DOOLEY: Let me stop you right there. 10 Why? Why do you want to know every day? 11 MS. BOWMAN: Every day what? 12 MR. DOOLEY: That we cancel. 13 MS. BOWMAN: Because when you get audited, 14 they are expecting you to have gamed that day. 15 MR. DOOLEY: We have -- 16 MS. BOWMAN: We don't know that until she 17 goes to audit. You can call us. You can send it 18 by email. 19 MR. DOOLEY: Just another problem in the 20 process. I don't agree with you, but go ahead. 21 MS. BOWMAN: Okay, but I'm just saying that 22 your permit says that you are going to game every 23 night, so that is what we expect you to do, and if 24 you didn't, because there could be weather CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 47 1 situations, and many people call in the 2 summertime, this time of year, because they can't 3 find volunteers, that is fine, all you have to do 4 is call and say, we can't game, we didn't game 5 last night, and that is the end of it, but when 6 she's auditing, she expects to see that. 7 The other thing that goes on is we have 8 inspectors to come out, and when they go to that 9 location, they expected you to game because it was 10 on a Monday might and that is on your permit. If 11 you call and say, I will not be gaming next Monday 12 night, I will not go there. That is helpful for 13 us in budget reduction times for that car to not 14 be on the road, and also that inspector's time. 15 MS. EVERETT: Yes, David? 16 MR. BAILEY: Maria and Amigo, I wanted to 17 probe your knowledge for the setting up of the 18 Division, and I wondered if it was unique that you 19 have an agency, if I can call it that, of the 20 state government that does not get the fees. I 21 think about in the department of professions and 22 occupations, the fees that are paid by the 23 contractors that I work with goes to the Board of 24 Contractors and then they have staff, so they are CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 48 1 not as subject to the pulling back of the money. 2 If the funeral directors and health 3 professions or speak therapists and others, they 4 pay a fee and the money is kept for them, but they 5 know that that is their budget's money, and it 6 seems like to me that in my limited knowledge, 7 this may be almost a unique situation where you 8 have fees coming in that are not then being 9 allocated, so to speak, to that division. 10 MS. EVERETT: Right. 11 MR. BAILEY: And that would solve some of 12 the problems of backlog and not the cuts that have 13 to be made. 14 MS. EVERETT: I think your point is well 15 taken. In my experience, because we do write the 16 regulatory for health professions, barbers, real 17 estate agents, they are what they call special 18 fund agencies. 19 MR. BAILEY: Right. 20 MS. EVERETT: So the price or the cost of 21 regulation is born by the regulants, and so I, as 22 a lawyer, I pay the Virginia State Bar a ton of 23 money to be licensed every year, and it goes to 24 them, unlike charitable gaming where the audit CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 49 1 fees don't go to charitable gaming; they go to the 2 general fund and they are spread around and then 3 they get appropriated based on how many positions 4 they have and stuff like that, and it is a unique 5 situation, and that may be one solution to the 6 problem, is making the Division a special fund 7 agency so that the cost of the operation of the 8 division is paid for by the application fees, the 9 audit fees, and things like that. Yes, Chuck? 10 David? 11 MR. BAILEY: If I could follow up, I cannot 12 speak for anyone else here other than for myself, 13 but if the fees that are coming in are less than 14 what the Division is getting, I would think that 15 we all should be on the bandwagon together on that 16 and say that it should be changed. If the fees 17 are coming in on half of what the agency is 18 giving, good people should say the fees are going 19 up, but if the money is being paid in and we 20 should be able to track that, and if they are less 21 than what they are getting, let's get that 22 changed. 23 MR. WADE: I just want to say that that is 24 a good point. In fact, there is a division called CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 50 1 the Callahan Act that says for these agencies, 2 these boards, that the licensing fees, that there 3 has to be some relation between the licensing fee 4 and the cost of the regulations, so it could be a 5 good thing or it can be a bad thing, and that is 6 just one of the reasons that the board for barbers 7 combined with the cosmetology board, because there 8 was such a smaller number of licensees. 9 MS. EVERETT: Chuck? 10 MR. LESSIN: I would like to address that 11 comment, if I could. In the past, I would say, 12 three weeks, the Virginia Charitable Bingo 13 Association has spoken to three different 14 legislators, Albo, Scott, and Jones, on this exact 15 point, and the members that have spoken to us are 16 very upset, exactly to your point, that if we're 17 charities and we're sending this money in, this 18 108 percent and we're really all understanding 19 that it's going to fund the Division of Charitable 20 Gaming which enforces the rules and regulations, 21 it's not; it's being sucked up by the general 22 fund, and of all of the groups in the state that 23 should be seemingly penalized, it affects the 24 charities, and that makes no sense, but we wanted CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 51 1 to take it a step further. We wanted to have 2 input. 3 Clearly the Division has its own budget and 4 we will not have much of anything in that, but 5 what about any excess that might exist? What 6 about meetings like this where we could all be 7 meeting with the Division on a regular basis and 8 say, let's be innovative, and we might disagree 9 with some things, but I bet if we sat long enough, 10 we could find a few things that we agree on, and 11 if we do that with the Division and not have to 12 wait year after year, waiting for the General 13 Assembly to pass laws, some of these things are 14 just rule changes or new ideas that in the 15 confines of the existing law, we could work with 16 the Division and introduce a new game or idea and 17 it automatically will benefit the charities, so 18 we're definitely pushing that idea. The Division 19 we believe should get to keep the funds that we 20 send and work with us to help us in any way that 21 they can, including enforcement. 22 MS. EVERETT: And if I might add, proactive 23 is always better than reactive. You know, when 24 everything is said and done and then you have to CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 52 1 react and come after the -- you know, the horses 2 are out of the barn. To answer your question 3 about -- or address the concern of "we don't have 4 time to check the website," we're not -- then 5 there is another way that, if you don't have to 6 check a website, if -- is that under another law, 7 the Freedom of Information Act, you can send a 8 letter to the Charitable Gaming Board and say, I 9 want notice of every meeting that you have, and 10 that request is good for one year, and then you 11 can tell them how you want to receive that notice, 12 whether you want them to pick up the phone, 13 whether you want them to send you a copy of the 14 notice that they are required to post, or whether 15 you want an email or a fax, but if you do it once 16 a year and say, "Charitable Gaming Board, I want 17 to receive notice of every meeting that you have 18 as the board and any subcommittee of the board," 19 then they are obliged to give you notice in the 20 way that you choose for a full year, and all you 21 have to do every year is renew that request. 22 MR. DOOLEY: I would assume that is on the 23 website now, that form to where we can notify them 24 of that? CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 53 1 MS. EVERETT: All you have to do -- 2 MR. DOOLEY: That I can request Roanoke 3 Council to send the notice of every meeting? 4 MS. EVERETT: Yes, it is the same law, the 5 Freedom of Information Act. We call it personal 6 notice. Instead of waiting to see where notice is 7 posted and find out where meetings are, it 8 gives -- because government just has the 9 requirement to post notice, but if you go one step 10 further as a citizen and you can call me, I have 11 cards here, and I will write the letter for you, 12 because the other part of my job is the Freedom of 13 Information Act and a letter that says, give me 14 notice, and again, all you have to do is send it 15 in once a year, and they are required by law to 16 provide you that notice in the way that you want 17 it. 18 It is a simple request, like exactly your 19 point, City Council for Roanoke, the Planning 20 Commission, whatever body you are interested in 21 finding out about their meetings for them to give 22 you personal notice. All you have to do is write 23 a letter and ask for it, or send an email, 24 whatever is your pleasure, but, you know, a lot of CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 54 1 what government does on websites is not required 2 by law, necessarily, but they do it to make it 3 more user friendly, that it's easier to check, so 4 there is some responsibility as citizens to get 5 off our butts a little bit, if you excuse the 6 expression, and find out what is going on, it's 7 back to that whole proactive thing versus 8 reactive. David, did you have anything else? 9 MR. BAILEY: No, I think that you answered 10 it. 11 MS. BOWMAN: Just a response to 12 Mr. Bailey's comment, so you don't think that 13 we're sitting over here with a wad of cash, it's 14 over $3 million that is returned, and our budget 15 was $1.9 million and it will be less in about a 16 week, $1.8 million, $1.7 million, depending on 17 where the cut is, just so you know. 18 MS. EVERETT: Yes, you are not getting it. 19 MS. BOWMAN: Yes. 20 MR. DOOLEY: So are you saying that out of 21 the 1.8 percent the audit fees come in, that is a 22 total of over $3 million; is what that what you 23 are saying? 24 MS. BOWMAN: It's license fees, application CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 55 1 fees, suppliers, all of that. 2 MR. DOOLEY: Yes, and your less than -- you 3 are right at one third of that? 4 MS. BOWMAN: A little over one third. 5 MS. EVERETT: Yes. 6 MS. BOWMAN: But stay tuned, it will be 7 less in a week or so. 8 MR. DOOLEY: I understand, that is a 9 shame. 10 MS. EVERETT: So now the delays make a 11 little bit more sense, because Betty, tell them in 12 the enforcement, and again, nobody is offering 13 excuses; we're just giving knowledge, now you are 14 starting to see the picture of -- how many 15 enforcement people did you used to have? 16 MS. BOWMAN: Six. 17 MS. EVERETT: And how many are there now? 18 SPEAKER: Three. 19 MS. BOWMAN: Two and a-half, one is waged. 20 MR. WADE: And again, it's not like -- 21 SPEAKER: For the whole state. 22 MS. EVERETT: This is the reality of why 23 does it take so long to run a permit. It's not an 24 excuse, but this is the way that it is, so special CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 56 1 fund agencies sounds like a winner; it really 2 does. 3 MR. BAILEY: I was going to make one other 4 comment, but I can remember over the years 5 different regulatory boards that lowered their 6 fees because they were building up an excess of 7 money, and that the fees only -- they kept a 8 little bit of the surplus, to be sure, but then 9 they realized that the fees didn't need to be as 10 high, because they were getting in "X" million and 11 they only needed this amount to spend, and I think 12 that that would be also be relief to the charities 13 and all involved, if the agency needed $2.5 14 million to operate and they are getting $3 15 million, it sounds like there is a significant 16 reduction could be paid at some point against the 17 fees. 18 MS. EVERETT: Let me ask a question. How 19 about use of proceeds in terms of meeting the ten 20 percent minimum? Does anybody have any particular 21 trouble meeting their ten percent that the law 22 requires to be given to charity? Everybody is 23 meeting it? Is anybody exceeding it? 24 MS. BOWMAN: I think some in this room are, CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 57 1 more than ten percent. 2 MS. EVERETT: Are making more than ten 3 percent, because we've heard from different areas 4 of the state that they can't even make their ten 5 percent, but that is not a complaint here; you are 6 making your ten percent? 7 MR. MORRIS: Well, I thought that I was 8 making my ten percent, but I was informed 9 yesterday, or the day before, that I only made 10 9.72 percent, so I'm being audited for that other 11 point 23 percent. 12 MS. EVERETT: Hmm-hmm. 13 MR. MORRIS: Isn't this that a little 14 strict? 15 MS. EVERETT: Well, let me just -- having 16 again been the attorney that staffed the 17 charitable gaming -- three-year charity gaming 18 study in the 1990's that led to the state-wide 19 controls, that was before like instants had serial 20 numbers and everything was -- everything had 21 serial numbers so you knew what you had, and it 22 was just a world of abuse, and that is what they 23 were responding to, but the whole bottom line of 24 this, and so maybe a lot of this is a reaction to, CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 58 1 this is such an easy -- because it is a cash 2 business, it's easier for money just to sort of 3 disappear. 4 I remember, and I and this in Anandale, 5 when people were selling instants before they were 6 required to have serial numbers, people fold the 7 bills long ways and run them in their fingers and 8 then it was like I can't hold anymore, then it 9 goes in the pocket and the hand comes out and that 10 money never showed back up on the table, about the 11 idea of charitable gaming in the first place, and 12 Amigo sort of said that, in the beginning, 13 gambling is illegal unless the General Assembly 14 says it's not, and playing the lottery is legal 15 gaming; betting on horse races, providing that 16 there is a license, it's gambling but it's legal, 17 and charitable gaming is the other time that it's 18 not called illegal gambling, and why charitable 19 gaming? Because, as everybody has pointed out, 20 there is a burden taken off of government by the 21 work you do, and that is why it's legalized, but 22 because people were not -- you know, they are 23 making $1 million and the charity saw $150,000 of 24 that million dollars, it was just -- it is a cash CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 59 1 business and money has a funny way of 2 disappearing, so that -- I think that the law 3 specifically says the Board has the authority to 4 set up a predetermined amount of -- that has to be 5 given to the charity, because that is what this is 6 all about. Ten percent of everything that you do 7 to charity does not seem a particularly high 8 percentage, and they lowered it from 12 percent? 9 MS. BOWMAN: (Nods.) 10 MS. EVERETT: So that is why you are going 11 to get audited. You are pretty close, but the 12 minimum -- it is a minimum that they set, a 13 minimum of ten percent, so you haven't even hit 14 your minimum yet, and yes, is it strict, yes, but 15 why is it strict? Because you are gambling and 16 that is one thing. You do great work, and nobody 17 is trying to take that away from anybody, but it's 18 still gambling, and that is why the strictness, is 19 my answer to you, based on sort of being on the 20 legislative side of the equation. 21 MR. DOOLEY: I have another question. 22 MS. EVERETT: Sure enough. 23 MR. DOOLEY: And I'm probably going a 24 little bit from left field to center field, but CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 60 1 the big word seems to be gambling. My question to 2 you, and information for me, is this department, 3 and the department of the ABC, do they ever meet 4 and discuss gambling? If not, I'd like to go on 5 Record and suggest that maybe you do, because I 6 want to explain to you about a 1,000 member club, 7 that 900 of them don't care about playing bingo 8 but they want to play Texas Hold'em; they want to 9 play poker, and according to the regulations, that 10 is gambling. 11 They don't understand that, why bingo can 12 be legal and that other game can't, and when you 13 as the administrator to try to tell them, hey, it 14 is the law, you need to go and talk to the proper 15 people to try to get it changed, but I'm just 16 wondering, does -- do you all ever have that 17 request? 18 MS. BOWMAN: Yes, we get together and have 19 drinks. 20 MR. DOOLEY: I can live with this. 21 MS. EVERETT: What does this have to do 22 with the ABC? You've kind of lost me on that. 23 MR. DOOLEY: Because of the word 24 "gambling," the ABC is very, very strict in what CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 61 1 they say gambling is. If it is a game of chance 2 and you paid to play, and as there is a monetary 3 value at the end of it, that is gambling, 4 according to all the ABC rules. That little World 5 Series pool that you play in your office -- 6 MS. EVERETT: Not me, man. 7 MR. DOOLEY: We can't play it in the Moose 8 Lodge because we have an ABC law. 9 MS. EVERETT: This is Virginia after all, 10 and gambling is illegal unless the General 11 Assembly says these types are not, bingo, lottery, 12 and horse racing. Everybody else, though you are 13 allowed, you can play some poker in your own house 14 as long as it's not like every Tuesday night, come 15 to Maria's house because there is a game there; 16 then it turns into an illegal gaming operation, 17 but it is, so why is poker illegal? 18 Because everything -- all gambling in 19 Virginia is illegal except for charitable gaming, 20 the lottery, and horse racing, period, so 21 everything else -- any gambling that you can think 22 of is illegal to start from; that is the start 23 position, except for those three things, and, you 24 know, what is the rationale for horse racing? CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 62 1 It's for the horse people in the world, at least 2 in Virginia, it's to nurture a Virginia born 3 industry, to help the horse industry, okay? 4 I mean, I'm just telling you what the 5 policy that underpins it says. It's agriculture, 6 lottery, and we are funding education. All right, 7 we could go on for days about that alone but we're 8 not, but at least that is the policy behind it. I 9 didn't say that it was good, bad, or indifferent, 10 I'm just saying -- and charitable gaming, the 11 underlying policy of why we're going to allow this 12 kind of gambling is because you are doing good 13 works and it takes a burden off of the government 14 that they don't have to find the money to do good 15 works that you do, and that is why it's legal. 16 Why poker? Because it's illegal, because is at 17 any time one of the three. That is the thing. 18 MR. DOOLEY: I'm beating on you -- 19 MS. EVERETT: I don't take it personally. 20 MR. DOOLEY: -- but why is it fair for you 21 to play in your home and I can't play at my 22 organization, and we're giving money to charity? 23 Are you taking money out of your house? 24 MS. EVERETT: No, that just sort of means CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 63 1 that "your home is your castle" kind of place, and 2 that yes, you could have your buddies over, drink 3 a few beers, play a little bit of poker, but if 4 that game turns into, like I said, show up at 5 Maria's house every Thursday and get in a little 6 game and she will take everybody who comes in with 7 the $200 entrance fee, then now we're like in a 8 gambling operation, but charity is still -- I 9 mean, even though the purpose is laudable and it's 10 all charitable, the bottom line is that it's still 11 gambling and it is still a cash business, and that 12 is why the regulations are set up and that is why 13 the statute is set up. It gives them all 14 authority to regulate it to keep the game clean. 15 Now, do we have the kinds of abuses that we 16 used to have in the mid-'90's. It wasn't so much 17 local regulation that was at fault; it's that 18 there were no serial numbers on anything. There 19 was to real reporting on anything. Nobody was 20 ever audited, so maybe has the pendulum swung too 21 far? Maybe yes or no, but that is an argument to 22 be made. 23 When is the last abuse that you've heard 24 of? You are running clean games so you are not CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 64 1 reading stories about people who have landlords 2 who used to charge $65 per ashtray per year if you 3 wanted to rent their space, because a lot of -- 4 you know, smaller games have to have somewhere to 5 play, and there's some unscrupulous landlords, 6 like I need to tell anybody in this room about 7 that, that are charging people and charities, it's 8 better to give $10 than no dollars and they are 9 paying exorbitant rates to the landlord, and does 10 the landlord have to contribute to a charity? No, 11 unless the landlord is actually a charitable 12 organization that happens to own their own hall, 13 but landlords generally -- if I owned, say, just a 14 warehouse and I rented it out for people to play 15 bingo, do I have to make a contribution to 16 charity? No. Yes, sir? 17 SPEAKER: Everybody keeps saying going to 18 $250. 19 MS. EVERETT: Right. 20 SPEAKER: Is that optional, where you can 21 go up to -- where it can be mandatory, and if it 22 is mandatory, $250, who is going to give the 23 charities that I donate to their cash every year, 24 are they just going to be SOL. CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 65 1 MS. EVERETT: I think that the answer to 2 this, and again, I'm not a legislator and I can't 3 speak for what they will do, but basically, we've 4 been doing -- we've done two public hearings, and 5 the 100 percent consensus was no increase in prize 6 amounts, and if I believe what Delegate Albo and 7 others have said, if the consensus is don't raise 8 the prize amounts, guess what? The prize amounts 9 will not get raised, and even if they do, because 10 the prize amount, it's nothing can exceed $100, so 11 you can have lesser prize amounts but you cannot 12 exceed the $100 on a bingo game, so it is a 13 maximum, but based on what we're recording here 14 and, you know, I'm kind of keeping a little tally 15 sheet, nobody is wanting an increase in prizes 16 because of exactly what you said. It's not going 17 to hurt; it's going to kill. 18 MR. WADE: I think that that also kind of 19 puts the spotlight on the way that the legislation 20 has gone forward, in particularly in the last 14 21 years, kind of piecemeal, to the group that went 22 to the individual legislator and said, I think 23 that we need to increase the games to the -- the 24 prize to $250; that seemed like a good idea, but CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 66 1 it was done piecemeal meal and kind of in a 2 vacuum, and when the bill was introduced and 3 groups came forward, they said it is a going to be 4 a bad idea, so that is a part of what we're doing 5 at this public hearing is trying to find out so 6 the members wouldn't make decisions in a vacuum, 7 and I think, as Maria says, there is not much of a 8 vacuum left to raising the prize amount to $250. 9 SPEAKER: Well, if they want to give away 10 $250, let them, but I can't afford to, so it 11 should be an option up to, not period, $250. 12 MS. EVERETT: Right. 13 SPEAKER: That should be the option, not a 14 dead set fee. 15 MS. EVERETT: So let me ask you, if the 16 legislation says that no single bingo game can 17 exceed $250, you would be all right with that? 18 SPEAKER: Yes, I wouldn't have a problem 19 with that, if I can pay up to. 20 MS. EVERETT: Up to, but don't you think 21 that everybody who can, which means the bigger 22 games are going to jump right to the $250. 23 MR. SHELOR: Let me say something. 24 MS. EVERETT: Sure. CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 67 1 MR. SHELOR: That is not the position of 2 the Elks. 3 SPEAKER: That is my position, not the 4 Elks. 5 MS. EVERETT: Okay. It's always been a 6 maximum that you didn't have to ring the bell; you 7 could stop somewhere less than that, but we were 8 getting the sense of -- but you are the first one, 9 as not representing the Elks, that said, you know, 10 that you don't mind going up to $250 if you can do 11 something less than that; did I ask that right? 12 Did I get you right, then? 13 SPEAKER: No. If they want to, let that be 14 their option. Don't make it a mandatory $250. 15 MS. EVERETT: Right, okay. 16 SPEAKER: Because we can not afford $250. 17 MS. EVERETT: Okay. 18 SPEAKER: It will put me out of business. 19 I can stay at $100 and survive and still donate to 20 my charities, and this is my position not the 21 standard of the Elks, which I have not talked to 22 Mr. Shelor or anyone else about it. 23 MS. EVERETT: I understand that, but I'm 24 just curious, that if the other organizations in CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 68 1 your area that are running bingo and you say that 2 you can do anything from zero to $250, the ones 3 that can afford to go to $250, don't you think 4 that they will, and then what does that do to 5 you. 6 SPEAKER: Then you are going out of 7 business. 8 SPEAKER: It puts us out of business. 9 MS. EVERETT: Then everybody that comes to 10 your game, won't they go to the $250 game? It 11 seems so, unless I've been misunderstanding, but 12 that is what I've been thinking. 13 SPEAKER: Don't you think that I figured 14 that out? Where I'm down there in Russell County, 15 it's not far from West Virginia, and we have to 16 compete with them. I don't reckon that there is 17 any regulations whatsoever; they give away 18 anything that they want to. 19 MS. EVERETT: Right. 20 SPEAKER: That is killing us enough without 21 our next-door neighbor doing it. 22 MS. EVERETT: Part of the legislation I 23 think that people favored was on games that are 24 close to a border, and it was Jerry Kilgore, CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 69 1 right, it's Jerry, not Terry, that is the 2 representative in the House? It's Terry Kilgore, 3 okay, wanted that said right now, 100 percent of 4 your membership, what is the membership 5 requirement, 100 percent? 6 MS. BOWMAN: He wanted 100. 7 MS. EVERETT: Or he wanted -- you only had 8 to have 60 percent. 9 MS. BOWMAN: He wanted 100. It's 50. 10 MS. EVERETT: At least 50 percent of your 11 membership has to be Virginia residents, and they 12 wanted to up that? 13 MS. BOWMAN: Yes. 14 MS. EVERETT: I'm sorry, I had that 15 backwards, but that was something that everybody 16 tended to like, but that was hooked on to the bill 17 that increased prize amounts, did the four days of 18 play and it went flying down, not that that is -- 19 there was another comment? 20 SPEAKER: This $250 that these so-called 21 big dealers are proposing, they are not asking for 22 any increase in their paper? 23 MS. EVERETT: Increase in their -- 24 SPEAKER: What you have to buy to play the CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 70 1 game. 2 SPEAKER: The package that they buy. 3 MS. EVERETT: You would think so. That is 4 a good question. Nobody has really spoken to 5 that, is that, you know, since the money is going 6 up, then it costs you more to play? Yes, sir? 7 SPEAKER: I went around the room last night 8 and asked about three or four of the bingo players 9 the exact same question, if another game in town 10 went to $250 and we stayed at $100, where would 11 you go and play, and they said we would go to 12 $250, and even if it cost you $120 to get into the 13 game, and they said absolutely, that is the issue, 14 if my next-door neighbor goes to $250, we will 15 lose our players, I don't care what they charge 16 for admission. 17 MS. EVERETT: Okay, $150 investment for a 18 chance to win $250. 19 SPEAKER: Well, most people, if they can 20 give away $100 versus $250, what are they going to 21 give? They are going to give the $100. They 22 aren't going to give you $250 when they can get by 23 giving you $100. These big casinos and stuff are 24 trying to put the small games out of business, and CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 71 1 they know how to do it, and that is the $250 2 game. 3 MS. EVERETT: Hmm-hmm. 4 SPEAKER: Because they know that it will 5 put the small games out of business. 6 MS. EVERETT: Yes, we understand that 7 competition is stiff. 8 SPEAKER: And then when we're out of 9 business, they can do what they want, because 10 everybody is going to be scared of losing their 11 money then, because they are getting no other 12 money from other sources. 13 MS. EVERETT: All right. Anybody else have 14 a comment, issue that we would like to have a 15 discussion about? Betty, did you bring cards 16 again for people, your business cards? 17 MS. BOWMAN: Yes, I did. 18 MS. EVERETT: Okay, will you leave some on 19 the table? 20 MS. BOWMAN: Yes. 21 MS. EVERETT: I don't want to cut anybody 22 off, but again, my boss here Amigo -- so does 23 anybody else have any observation, comment, that 24 you want us to carry forward, any discussion, CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 72 1 because that is why we're here, and so if 2 anything -- this is your opportunity, and it's 3 really not your only opportunity, when you leave 4 here today and you think "Hmm, I wish that I had 5 said this," we're leaving our cards as well, and 6 those of you who must have seen the press release, 7 there is contact information, the website, you can 8 let Amigo and I know, so this isn't your only 9 point in time, so if something occurs to you, like 10 I said, for the September 15th meeting, what we're 11 going to be discussing is what we've heard from 12 the public hearings, and Amigo and I have been 13 tasked, if there is anything that we see in there 14 that is a recommendation that we think ought to be 15 made, which is like no increase in prize amounts, 16 we're going to say, we didn't hear anybody go 17 yippee, let's raise the prize amount; we heard 18 quite the contrary, and so that is what is going 19 to happen at that next meeting, so, you know, the 20 legislative process is kind of fluid, so again, 21 this is not your only opportunity, we have cards, 22 like I said, Betty will leave cards so that you 23 can have dialogue with the regulate or about 24 getting some things accomplished, so I guess that CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 73 1 I feel like an auctioneer, but I don't have a 2 license, so I'm not technically one -- oh, yes, 3 sir? 4 MR. DOOLEY: When I submit the application 5 and I put down who my volunteers are, I don't 6 remember without reading back through it, but do 7 the -- does the department do a background check 8 on those volunteers? 9 MS. BOWMAN: On the two. 10 MS. EVERETT: The president and the 11 treasurer was the answer. 12 MR. DOOLEY: So I guess my question on you 13 is what if one of them fails, who gets notified? 14 The person would get notified? 15 MS. BOWMAN: No, we would call the 16 president, if it was the treasurer or if it was 17 the president, I would call him and say that we 18 have a problem. 19 MS. EVERETT: And you are it. 20 MS. EVERETT: Okay. 21 MR. DOOLEY: And is there any way to appeal 22 that background check? 23 MS. BOWMAN: You can ask the state police. 24 I'm sorry, I don't know. That is where it goes. CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 74 1 MR. DOOLEY: That background check issue 2 thing is a very, very sensitive thing, and you got 3 agencies now that won't even accept one from a 4 national company. I know the State of Maryland 5 passed a law that if you don't consent to the 6 State of Maryland's background checks, they won't 7 deal with you, even though you've been background 8 checked by a national certified company in the 9 country. 10 MS. EVERETT: Well, in Virginia, the state 11 police have -- they are the only ones that have 12 access to the national criminal records, whatever 13 it's called, NCIC, and -- yes, sir? 14 SPEAKER: Maria, you said that there was a 15 meeting on September 15? 16 MS. EVERETT: Yes, sir. 17 SPEAKER: Where does it go from there? 18 Does the legislator vote? 19 MS. EVERETT: They will have a couple more 20 meetings, but the -- but some time, they wanted to 21 -- I mean, it is an election year, so, you know, 22 they have to get out, at least the house of 23 delegates has to get out and start pressing some 24 flesh, but I would think that -- do we have a CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 75 1 meeting scheduled past September? 2 MS. CHRISTINE McCORMICK: No. 3 MS. EVERETT: I don't think that September 4 is going to be the last meeting, but we will 5 probably have a meeting maybe in October or maybe 6 after elections in November, and that would be the 7 time where, if they have any legislative -- 8 because legislative recommendations, it will come 9 out and we'll post it on the website, and for 10 those of you who don't like the website, then 11 write me and say, I want notice of every time that 12 the subcommittees meet and I will give you notice, 13 so it will probably -- you know, but like I said, 14 Amigo did a sheet with the website address; it's 15 on the table outside, so I would think that 16 September is not going to be the end of it, is my 17 thinking. 18 SPEAKER: So it would be voted on in the 19 November election? 20 MS. EVERETT: Probably after we have 21 another meeting after the November election, but 22 like I said, what we do is we do a meeting 23 summary, the transcript will then be put on line, 24 the meeting summary, any recommendations that we CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 76 1 make as staff, we prepare a document and that will 2 likewise be on line. 3 Every presentation the Charitable Gaming 4 Division has done for the subcommittee is on line 5 now, so we just -- to make it easy for you to see 6 what is going on, because you are not in Richmond 7 and we don't usually meet outside of Richmond, and 8 again, those of you who are not interested in 9 going on a website, and that is fine, no 10 problems. 11 MR. DOOLEY: I want to correct you, I 12 didn't say that I didn't like the website, I said 13 that I didn't have time to sit there and watch it 14 every day. I want to correct you. 15 MS. EVERETT: For those of you who don't 16 have the time to sit there and watch it every day, 17 then call me and I will send it to you in hard 18 copy, okay? We want to make this as easy as 19 possible, so take my card and call me. You do 20 have the time to call me, "hey, Maria, send me 21 everything that is on the website" and I will do 22 it, okay. 23 MR. WADE: There was another hand. 24 SPEAKER: I have one more question, sort of CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 77 1 based on what he said about background checks. 2 MS. EVERETT: Sure. 3 MR. BANKS: Other than someone failed in a 4 background check, whatever, say everybody passes, 5 you know, with no prior history or anything, what 6 else is considered a threat to public safety? 7 MS. BOWMAN: I'm not sure that I 8 understand. 9 MS. EVERETT: So if the background check is 10 good, it's clean, is there any other 11 disqualifier? Is that a good paraphrase of your 12 question? 13 SPEAKER: Yes, that is my question. 14 MS. EVERETT: I don't know of anything. 15 Because if it's not good enough to get you a 16 conviction, then I guess that it is not good 17 enough, in a bad way; you know what I am saying. 18 MS. EVERETT: Okay, back to my -- okay, 19 anything else? 20 SPEAKER: If it ain't broke, don't try to 21 fix it. 22 MS. EVERETT: Okay, got that. Three people 23 said that, I got it. All right, so in my 24 auctioneer hat, any other comment, comment, CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 78 1 suggestion, anything? Going once, going twice, 2 SPEAKER: Amen. 3 MS. EVERETT: Sold. 4 5 (Proceedings were concluded.) 6 7 8 * * * * * 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017 79 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA 3 COUNTY OF ROANOKE 4 I, Lisa M. Hooker, Notary Public in and for 5 the Commonwealth of Virginia, at Large, do hereby certify 6 that the Public Meeting held on August 25, 2009 was by me 7 reduced to machine shorthand in the presence of the 8 witness, afterwards transcribed under my direction by 9 means of Computer, and that to the best of my ability the 10 foregoing is a true and correct transcript of the Public 11 Meeting as aforesaid. 12 I further certify that this Public Meeting 13 was taken at the time and place in the foregoing caption 14 specified. 15 I further certify that I am not a relative, 16 counsel or attorney for either party or otherwise 17 interested in the outcome of this action. 18 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 19 hand at Roanoke, Virginia, on this the day of 20 , 2009. 21 22 Lisa M. Hooker Notary Public 23 My commission expires October 31, 2011. 24 Notary Registration Number: 165043 CENTRAL VIRGINIA REPORTERS (540)380-5017